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專訪紀錄片導演黃惠偵:我的T媽媽教我的,不是恨
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6歲跟著媽媽做陣頭,20歲開始走入社會運動。紀錄片導演黃惠偵,關注移工、土地正義議題,作品有《八東病房》及《烏將要回家》。這次她拿起攝影機,說起自己「不正常」的家庭故事。

黃惠偵有個暴力酗酒的父親、有個同性戀的母親,自己則是個連國小都沒畢業的陣頭少女,從小被貼上各種標籤。曾經痛苦、曾經恨,社會上的「正常」對她來說竟是那麼遙不可及。
她在成為母親後,才開始跳出女兒的身分,以更跳脫的角度來看自己母親的人生脈絡:一個徹頭徹尾的獨身主義者,在家庭、社會的壓迫下,選擇了一條背離自己本質的路。「這個社會沒有給我們太多空間,成為自己的樣子,」黃惠偵在《我和我的T媽媽》放映後與觀眾分享。在這部片子拍攝期間,黃惠偵出席了一場公聽會。一位反對同志婚姻的「母親」,再三重申為了保護孩子,絕對不能讓同志婚姻合法。
「做為一個女同志的小孩,我的確有著非常痛苦的成長經驗。然而那痛苦並不是因為我的母親是同性戀,而是因為其他人的歧視;就像公聽會中站在發言台上神情激動、緊蹙眉頭,誓言一定要保護孩子健康安全成長那樣的人。 我相信他們想保護孩子的心,如果那天他們真的願意多了解同志家庭,讓孩子們可以在身心健全的環境中成長,我也會願意幫忙。是的,儘管你們教我歧視仇恨我的母親,並對我自己的出身感到自卑,但我不會計較那些,因為我的同志母親教我的,不是恨。」
紀錄片導演黃惠偵
以下是黃惠偵接受《報導者》專訪紀要,以第一人稱表述:

我媽是變態?

我以前真的以為,每個媽媽都有要好的女朋友。直到我11歲,天安門事件那年,我才聽到其他長輩聊天,說我媽媽是同性戀、是變態、不正常。那時候心裡響了一聲很大的雷,懷疑他們說的是不是真的?我不敢多問,只能自己去找證據。我看了電視、報紙,看了書,都剛好在驗證長輩們講的那些話:「同性戀是疾病、不正常」。
我的爸爸喝酒、家暴、賭博,我們都希望他最好不要在家。我一直有感覺我媽有天會逃走,我一直在等那天,很擔心她只帶我妹妹逃走,沒帶我走。
逃走的那天,是個尋常午後。我媽逃得很倉促,沒想過帶小孩逃走需要做哪些準備。因為戶口名簿沒帶走,我不能報戶口也不能上學。我媽拜託鄰居朋友帶我們去學校念書,想要蒙混過去。但因為我三天兩頭要做陣頭,上學情況很不穩定,所以後來就沒繼續上學了。
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《我和我的T媽媽》劇照,黃惠偵媽媽工作是「牽亡」。(照片/黃惠偵提供)
《我和我的T媽媽》劇照,黃惠偵媽媽工作是「牽亡」。(照片/黃惠偵提供)
我的身上帶有很多標籤。除了我媽是同志外,我們家也是做「牽亡」的(牽亡:民俗喪葬禮儀中,牽引亡魂的儀式)。做陣頭的在這社會上一直都沒有好的地位,外界總覺得你是中輟、不學好、逃家、飆車、吸毒的小孩,才會在陣頭這個行業。好像這社會認定的「正常」,在我身上都沒有。
1998年,有個紀錄片導演來拍攝青少女做牽亡的議題,我才第一次知道什麼是紀錄片。也因為科技的普及,讓每個人都能購買攝影機,我決定要買一台,我想自己講自己的故事。
《我和我的T媽媽》是我第一次拍這麼親近的家人。訪談過程中,讓我最驚訝的,就是我媽結婚的原因。我一直以為她是被家人嫁出去的,後來才知道,我媽是因為跟她當時的女朋友吵架。賭氣之下,兩個人都跑去結婚。
訪談的過程中也發現,我本以為我家沒有「櫃子」(櫃子:指對於同志身分的隱藏)。因為我媽媽交女朋友從沒對家人隱瞞,常把女朋友帶回家,有的女朋友跟我媽吵架,還會打電話跟我舅舅告狀。所以,我一直以為我家是沒有櫃子的。一直到拍攝的時才發現,我們家還是有櫃子,只是櫃子裡的人不是我媽媽,而是我媽的家人。影片中很經典的一段,就是我訪談親戚一連串的問題,但是只要問到:「你知不知道媽媽喜歡女生?」他們都稱說:「不知道」然後轉移話題,直接從攝影機前面離開。我一些同志朋友看到這段就很有感觸:當你打起勇氣要出櫃,周邊的人反而沒辦法接受
我印象中,媽媽交了10個左右的女朋友,但我媽的朋友都說她至少交過20個。媽媽因為送女友們金飾、玉鐲,把家裡的錢都花光了。很多跟我們一樣做陣頭的人,房子都是一棟棟的買,因為這行都是現金收入,又不用繳稅。但我到二十幾歲時才發現,我媽不僅沒有儲蓄,還有負債。站在不是家人的角度看她,會覺得這個人真的好自由喔!對她來說,人生應該是單純的,如果不是遇到這一連串的鳥事……。

老娘天生就是這樣,不需要有人來認同

年輕的時候,我對我媽不只是埋怨,而是恨!會覺得為什麼我不能跟其他人一樣?會覺得媽媽就應該要有媽媽的樣子。
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《我和我的T媽媽》劇照。(照片/黃惠偵提供)
《我和我的T媽媽》劇照。(照片/黃惠偵提供)
生孩子對我來說是一個很大的轉折,在這之前,我都是用女兒的角度在看我媽。生了孩子以後,我才去思考,我媽這個人,她在生我之前過的是什麼樣的日子?她想要什麼樣的人生?她所處的是什麼樣的環境?有什麼樣的無奈?
當時的社會環境就是,女生年紀到了就得出嫁,不然神主牌位就不能擺在家裡。影片中沒有剪進去的一段是,我問我媽:「假設你當初嫁的,是會工作賺錢好好養家的『正常人』,那你還會去喜歡女生嗎?」她說不會,她會選擇跟其他正常人一樣,因為這樣比較輕鬆。我當下聽到很難過,想說:天啊!為什麼我們要為了過得比較輕鬆,而不去成為你真正的樣子。
我們一個資深剪接師看了影片後說:「你媽根本就是爸爸!」這也是我拍這片最大的學習,本來就不應該期待她是一般想像的溫柔的媽媽。她不應該走入婚姻,也更適合一個人自由的過日子。
有次我帶她去參加同志遊行,本來想說她會有被認同的感覺。但她才逛了一下就想回家打牌了,我發現她根本不需要別人認同,她就是一副「老娘天生長出來就是這樣,不需要有人來認同」的模樣。這才是理想狀態,每個人本來就不需要透過一個遊行來呼喊或尋求認同。
很多看完《我和我的T媽媽》的人說,覺得影片並沒有太多呼籲同志平權的內容,只是我跟我媽的和解。對我來說,這部片不是去爭取同志婚姻平權,而是去爭取每個人,在不傷害別人的情況下,能活出自己樣子的自由。
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What My Lesbian Mother Taught Me: An Interview With Director Huang Hui-Chen

At six years old, she followed her mother into dintao temple fair processions, and at 20, she took part in social movements. Documentary director Huang Hui-chen (黃惠偵) has paid close attention to workers’ rights and land reform justice in her documentaries “Hospital Wing 8” (八東病房) and “Wu Jiang Wants To Go Home” (烏將要回家). This time, she’s taken up her camera to tell the story of her “abnormal” family life.
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Huang's father was a violent drunk, and her mother was a lesbian; she never graduated from elementary school, and instead performed in a dintao temple troupe. Since Huang was young, she's been pinned with a number of labels, left feeling like society's definition of “normality” has always eluded her.
It wasn't until Huang became a mother that she cast off her role as a daughter and saw the fabric of her mother's life: a person who desperately wanted to remain single, but was forced to choose a different path under pressure from her family and society.
“This society does not give us very much space to be ourselves,” Huang Hui-chen tells the audience after a showing of her 2016 documentary “The Priestess Walks Alone” (我和我的T媽媽).
The capital letter “T” in the Chinese-language title refers to the English word “tomboy,” literally translating to “my tomboy lesbian mother and I.” In Taiwan’s LGBT subculture, the letter “T” is used to describe women who choose to adopt a more male-like role in intimate relationships.
As filming was underway, Huang attended a public hearing for marriage equality. She heard a mother at the hearing who repeatedly insisted that to protect children, gay marriage could not be legally permitted.
“Being the daughter of a lesbian, I had a very painful childhood. And this suffering wasn't due to my mother being a lesbian, but because of discrimination from others, the kind of people who would stand agitated on that podium pledging to protect the health, safety, and growth of our children,” said Huang. “I believe they really do want to protect their children. If, on that day at the public hearing, they were willing to understand gay households, and if they wanted to let their children grow up in an environment that was healthy for their bodies and minds, then I would be willing to help,” adds Huang. “Yes, even though you'd teach me to discriminate and hate my mother, and make me feel that my background is inferior, I'd forget all about it, because what my gay mother taught me was not hate.”
Below is a summary of The Journalist's interview with Huang Hui-chen, written in the first person.

Is My Mother a Pervert?

I used to think that every mother had close girlfriends. It wasn't until I was eleven years old, the year that the Tiananmen Square incident happened, that adults started to tell me that my mother was a lesbian, a pervert, abnormal. At the time, those words thundered inside of me, and I wondered, was what they said true? I didn't dare ask more, but I sought out the facts for myself. I watched TV, read newspapers and books, and they all seemed to verify what those elders had said: “homosexuality is a disease, is abnormal.”
My father drank, gambled and was violent towards our family. We all preferred it when he wasn't home. I always thought that someday my mother would leave, and I waited for that day, but I was also worried that she would only take my younger sister and wouldn't take me.
The day we left was an ordinary afternoon. My mother was in a rush to leave and hadn't thought about the preparations needed for running away with children. Because we didn't take our household registration cards, I couldn't apply for new ones or attend school.
My mother begged our neighbours to take us to school to study, to sneak us in somehow. But because we had to work in the temple troupe three days a week, we didn't attend school regularly, and in the end we stopped going altogether.
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A scene from “The Priestess Walks Alone”: Huang Hui-chen's mother working as a soul guide. Photo courtesy of Huang Hui-chen.
A scene from “The Priestess Walks Alone”: Huang Hui-chen's mother working as a soul guide. Photo courtesy of Huang Hui-chen.
I've been labeled a lot of things. Aside from my mother being a lesbian, my family also performed “soul guiding,” a folk funeral rite for guiding the souls of the deceased. People in dintao temple troupes don’t have a good social status, and the outside world thinks that children in troupes are dropouts, runaways, street racers or junkies. It's as if I had nothing to do with what our society considers“normal.”
In 1998, a director came to film a documentary about young girls doing soul guiding, and this was how I first learned what a documentary was. Because technology was widespread, and because anyone could go buy a video camera, I decided to buy one to tell my own story.
“The Priestess Walks Alone” is my first film to feature such close family members. What surprised me most during the interviews for the film was hearing the reason that my mother got married. I had always thought that she was married off by her family, but it turned out that it was because my mother had a fight with her girlfriend at the time. In the heat of the moment, both of them had run off and gotten married to men.
I found out something else in the interviews. I originally thought that our family didn't have closets. When my mother had girlfriends she never hid it from her family; she often brought them home, and sometimes they would fight and they would call my uncle to complain.
It wasn't until we began filming that I realized our family does have a closet, it's just that it wasn't my mother who was in it but her family.
A typical instance in the film would occur during interviews; questions and answers would exchange smoothy until I would ask, “did you know that my mother is a lesbian?” Then they would say “I didn't know” and would then change the subject or walk away from the camera. Gay friends of mine saw this and were stirred. Even if you find the courage to come out, the people around you might not accept it.
My impression was that my mother had ten or so girlfriends, but her friends say that she's had at least twenty. Since my mother gave all her girlfriends gold jewelry and jade bracelets, she also ended up spending all of the household money.
A lot of people in dintao temple troupes end up buying house after house, because they always deal in cash and don’t pay taxes. When I was in my twenties I realized that my mother didn’t have any savings and that she was also in debt.
From an outsider's perspective, you might think that this person is so free. For my mother, life should have been simple, and if it weren't for a certain series of events, it might have been.

Doesn't Need Anyone's Approval

When I was young, I not only blamed my mother but hated her. I wondered, why am I not like others? I thought that mothers should just be like mothers.
Having a child was a major turning point for me. Before this, I only saw my mother from a daughter's point of view. After having a kid I began to think, my mother is a person; what was her life like before I was born? What kind of life did she want? What kind of environment did she live in? What are her regrets?
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A scene from “The Priestess Walks Alone.” Photo courtesy of Huang Hui-chen.
A scene from “The Priestess Walks Alone.” Photo courtesy of Huang Hui-chen.
The social custom of the time was that girls were to be married off when they came of age, or else their spirit tablets could not be displayed at home.
In a scene that we took out of the film, I asked my mom: “suppose that you married a ‘normal person’ who worked and made money and raised a family; then would you still like women?” She said she wouldn't, she would be like other normal people, because this way was less complicated. When I heard this I was very sad, and I wanted to say: My God! Life would be less complicated if we didn’t have to be the way we really are.
After seeing the film, one of our veteran editors said: “Your mom is basically a dad!” This was another thing I learned shooting this film: that I shouldn't have expected her to be a typical gentle mother. She should not have married, living a free life by herself suits her better.
Once, I took her to a Pride parade. I thought that she would feel recognized, but she only stayed a minute before she wanted to go home and play cards. It then occurred to me that she didn't need anyone's approval at all. She gives off this vibe that says, “this old woman was born this way, and doesn't need anyone’s approval.” This is the ideal; people didn't need a parade to shout their identity or to seek recognition of it in the first place.
After watching “The Priestess Walks Alone”, many people said the film doesn't really advocate for gay rights, and was more a reconciliation between myself and my mother. For me, I didn't film it to fight for marriage equality, but to fight for the freedom of every person, as long as they don't harm others, to live their own lives.
More English reads, please click here.

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優質深度報導必須投入優秀記者、足夠時間與大量資源⋯⋯我們需要細水長流的小額贊助,才能走更長遠的路。 竭誠歡迎認同《報導者》理念的朋友贊助支持我們!

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